New Topics

[Tom]

David, I think the Forum could do with some new topics. I suggest Software, Search Engines, and Website Reviews.
This afternoon I had a look through the Forum to find James' comment on his Wedding Website. (I wanted to ask what Features he plans to include - and to say that some ideas might be found from Brilliant Wedding Pages (http://www.bwedd.com/couples/showcase.asp). This site would also help with 'what to avoid' by way of graphic design.
In trying to find James' post I entered Kylie into the Google toolbar and asked for a search of the current site. No returns. Do you know if this is because Google has little interest in searching .php pages, or is it because of the security protection? An experiment on searchenginewatch.com (http://searchenginewatch.com) shows that Danny has his .php pages set up so that they are found by Google [my experiment was to search on Google for a long text string in quotation marks]. Here is another discussion of how dynamic content is indexed (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10721)Google explain their own policy on indexing dynamic content (http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html).
By the way: Yahoo plan to terminate their use of Google in 2004 and at that point Google's share of all searches is expected to drop from 75% to 55%. Inktomi will pick up the 20% and, if the engineers have done their job properly, will begin to erode Google's dominance. Remembering my previous post about Microsoft's plan to challenge Google I'd like to ask members: you think Google's expected offering of shares in 2004 will be a Good Buy or a Bad Buy?
To conclude this rambling post: do any other Forum Members have suggestions to David for New Topics?

[David]

Tom, I think by "Topics" you mean "Forums". The heirarchy goes like this:

The BBS (what we call "the forum") has three categories.
Each category has one or more forums.
Each forum has a number of topics.
Each topic has one or more posts.

I'm happy to create more forums if the group feel we need more. We will inevitably need 3 more forums next year for the 3 second year courses. I'm reluctant to create too many forums as this makes keeping track of things more difficult. My feeling is that, at the moment, it's about right.

You seem to have had problems locating James's "Feedback" post and rather bizzarely tried to locate it using Google. Perhaps you didn't notice that we have our own internal search feature - this works extremely well. I know it's difficult to spot ;) but if you click on the word "Search" in the top-right navigation menu, you'll find it.

However, your point about the indexing of dynamic content is an interesting one. For some reason, Google doesn't tend to do this well but I have noticed that other search engines, such as AlltheWeb (http://www.alltheweb.com) are quite good at it. I haven't had the time to investigate this so any comment from the others would be welcome.

[Tom]

You are right David: I had not noticed the search tab! This is another illustration of the need to design for the lowest common denominator (me!). Also, of the advantages of supporting the emerging conventions in web design. Several books call these conventions 'patterns' in the sense defined by Christopher Alexander and used in object-oriented programming (OOP). The pattern I have in mind is Place a Search Box on the Topright Corner of the Screen {Alexander writes his patterns in capital letters}. [Note to students: next time you are in college please have a look at a library copy of Christopher Alexander's book on The Pattern Language; you don't need to read it but you do need to look at a few patterns, in preparation for our seminar on Design Methods. There are 10 copies in the library and the shelf mark is 720.1/ALE]. Also see Alexander's website http://www.patternlanguage.com/ - he does not have a Topright searchbox, or realise that his concept of patterns is now being used in web design, though he does have breadcrumb navigation on sub-home pages. Saint Jacob regards a Breadcrumb Trail (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/991114.html) as an example of a Design Convention (which is a similar concept to an Alexander Pattern).

Another explanation for my not noticing the search facility on WebsisteArchitecture is that I have had so many bad experiences with finding and using local search facilities that I have got into the habit of trying a Google Current-Site search first. For example, if I want to find David's email address from the UoG website, it is much easier to find it with a Google Current-Site search than to try with either the UoG Site Search or the UoG staff directory. On many University websites it is almost impossible to find staff email addresses without Google Current-Site search [available from the Google Toolbar].

Re searching for dynamic (database) content see the website and book on The Invisible Web (http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/InvisibleWeb.html). See also Defining the Invisible Web (http://websearch.about.com/library/weekly/aa061203a.htm). They explain that spiders are barred from password-protected content. Also, sloppy programming produces a "spider trap": the search agent is driven into an endless loop of searching without finding. It is fear of these loops which causes spiders to turn away from a ? in a search string. The Bright Planet study found that the Invisible proportion of the web is 500 times larger than the visible part. Its like dark matter in the universe. Most managers want their content to be part of the 0.2% of web data which IS indexed, rather than the dark matter (of which this forum is part). Google's sever farm had 10,000 (caseless) machines in 2002. Would they need 5,000,000 machines to deal with all the dark matter? From a web planning standpoint the important principle is to put in URLs to dynamic content in such a way that the spider is able to follow the trail. Despite being known as 'intelligent agents', spiders are really unintelligent robots. They cannot think and they cannot enter seach queries. I don't know how they do it but Amazon and Kelkoo have ways of ensuring the findability of to all their books. Perhaps they have deals with the search companies. SMEs can use html pages (eg site maps) with easy-to-spider lists of all their products. There is a fair amount of advice on how to provide 'spider food' Optimizing Dynamic Web Pages (http://www.searchengineethics.com/dynamicpages.htm) and Optimizing Dynamic Content (http://biz-whiz.com/article132.html) but one would have to be a fanatic or an expert to make much use of it. My prefered solution is to generate static pages from a database. You then get the convenience of dynamic sites with the searchability and fast response time of static sites.

For searching, the librarians' advice is to find out which sites have good databases (eg of Modern Artists) and then search from within the site. There is a general pessimism about the willingness, or capability, of spiders to deal with dynamic content. I regard this as a MAJOR REASON for caution about the use of .asp and .php technologies. If one is using a website to 'reach' the public for any kind of publicity or marketing purpose then one is far safer with static pages. The first trousers I had with a zip fastener were like this: all very clever but no substitute for buttons. I won't go into the details. :(

Re the number of Forums, I would have thought that a full page of them (say 25) would, in time, be useful and not confusing. I would, for example, also like to see a Forum for Resources (=URLs to useful sites).