Yahoo vs Google

[Tom]

There is an interesting analysis in this month's Wired, celebrating Yahoo's 10th birthday.

They say: Google gets all the publicity but they have equal shares of the search market (approx 35% each) and Yahoo is a bigger company with more employees making bigger profits. As we discussed last year, Yahoo does this by being a 'package holiday' operator. For non-tech people it provides everything they want. So are Google and Yahoo shaping up for a fight to the finish? Wired says "No, because Yahoo is heading for Holywood and Google is heading for Redmond". Yahoo was in deep trouble a couple of years ago (with the share price down from $119 to $4) but they hired a non-tech Holywood exec (ex CEO Warner Bros) and he has done wonders. There is no big strategy. If he can think of something the folks want he gives it to them. The nearest he has to a dream is providing Holywood content over broadband - he grew up with all the right people for this and has never learned to use email. Are there any lessons for ants in this tale of titans? I can only think of the old one: give people what they want and plan for as many revenue streams as possible.

[francis]

I'm starting to think that Yahoo is really getting their act together. They seem to be adding some interesting new stuff like the Creative Commons search (http://search.yahoo.com/cc) and the Firefox toolbar (http://toolbar.yahoo.com/firefox), they've redesigned their main home page using standards, are now matching Gmail for storage space, are indexing 1.5 billion images to Google's 1.187 billion and beat Google to maps and an online personal calendar (http://calendar.yahoo.com/) (much rumoured to be Google's next thing). I wonder if they're trying to get grassroots nerd/geek support and hope that, a la Firefox, that will spread the word? If Yahoo had a news service like Google's rather than just a search box, I'd use that. Since Google introduced the personalisation on their news pages, they've looked incredibly ugly and amateurish, whereas Yahoo's site is pleasing to the eye.

Oh, and this 'which search engine shall I use' (http://www.philb.com/whichengine.htm) page is quite interesting.

[Tom]

Interesting. It is the difference between a nerd-powered company (Google) and a consumer-led company.

There is a long and fascinating analysis of Sony in this month's Fortune. They say (1) things began to go wrong, of course, when the founder died (2) then they bought Columbia Pictures and this is what made them pre-occupied with Digital Rights Management and proprietry formats (3) the new PPS Playstation Portable is brilliant - but hampered by no USB port and two proprietry storage media formats - so that you can really only use it to show films from Columbia Pictures and if you want to watch Spider Man 2 on your PPS and on your DVD player - then you have to buy two copies of the film (4) there has been terrible feuding between the geeks and nerds (5) they have given the top job to a Blue Eyes (westerner - Welsh-American) in the hopes of him doing the kind of job Goshn did at Nissan. He is totally non-technical. So in effect they are going to try and 'do a Yahoo' (run by a media man who does not use email!) on Sony. I think it will work. They should also change their Customer non-Service policy. I had a helluva job getting a new shoe for a tripod and then found that 25mm square of plastic with one scred cost me £35! The companies which have done most damage to Sony are Apple and Samsung.

[francis]

Interesting post (with numerous links) about Yahoo's performance last year (http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/2005/03/yahoo_never_los.php).

Additionally, I've recently discovered Threadwatch (http://www.threadwatch.org/), and excellent site on the comings and goings of the big players, including Amazon, Google and Yahoo (I've just added their XML feed as a FF live bookmark so I can see exactly what they're posting). From that, I've just discovered Yahoo's Farechase (http://farechase.yahoo.com/) service, and am really impressed with the results. That is a useful application that can be used by anyone in, I believe, any country (I looked up flights from Heathrow to NY and it brought back a good selection of prices), whereas Google keep bringing out American-centric things (maps, the TV thing, ride finder) that is of no interest to the majority of the planet. Sure, the technology is cool, but that's about it.

I'm becoming more enamoured with Y! each day, whereas Google is starting to get annoying. But with their massive expansion plans (http://www.threadwatch.org/node/2130), we'll have to see what happens.

Oh, and Sony should have learnt that proprietary formats are bad. That's why Betamax failed - they wanted complete control of the format, no one but them could manufacture machines and, IIRC, video tapes. Then VHS came along and the technology was franchised all over the shop. Betamax was actually a better, higher quality format, with the BBC using a derivation of if for many years over VHS; Sony lost out because they wanted complete control over everything.

[Tom]

Francis: Mac-man? Yahoo-man? Are you coming out as a geek! Did I hear a mutter about 'Death to nerds' or 'Down with Bill' or 'Up with Steve'? Have you been to work in a Hawaiian shirt or 3/4 length trousers? Have you ever had a dream about a Renault Espace? Do you own a pair of suede shoes? Has anyone sighted a black leather jacket in your bin? Do you wear boxer shorts or jockeys? What is the world coming to?

To return to reality: I had never heard of Farechase and had a couple of goes with it. Points i) I don't like being forced to choose dates from a callendar ii) but I love the way the dates stay the same for the next search - one can go spare entering them over and over again [Indian Railways is the prime example of applied torture in this respect) iii) I'm doubtful about Farechase being better than Expedia or Opodo.

Re Sony, the odd thing is that half the company (the product division) knew that proprietry standards would be a disaster. They were forced into them by the other half of the company - the content division.

Re the PSP memory formats: (i) the memory stick still looks indefensible (ii) the UMD (Universial Media Disc) might fill a need. The discs are small enough to go in a portable device and are a great deal cheaper then either flash memory or hard discs. The capacity is 1.8 Gb and it may be that other companies will see a use for this.

The conclusion Sony has drawn from the Betamax debacle is that one company cannot own a format - so they are forming a network of alliances (even with Samsung 'the new Sony' for flat screen TVs). They still think multiple formats can work - just as PAL and NTSC coexist, or GSM and CDMA, or currencies (outside Europe!)

[francis]

Don't own Hawain shorts, never owned a leather jacket or suede shoes and hate, with a passion, SUVs. Little Timmy does not need to be taken 1/2 a mile to school in an environmentally unfriendly tank. Anyway, this is another interesting Y! vs. G article (http://www.gigaom.com/2005/03/26/how-yahoo-got-its-mojo-back/). Yahooo 360 (http://360.yahoo.com/index_beta.html) is in beta, but there's a huge buzz about it. Like Gmail still is, it's invite only, but you can add yourself onto a beta waiting list, which I've just done. It'll be interesting to see what it's all about.

[Tom]

It is reported today that Yahoo's revenues and profits have both doubled - with the most of the growth coming from internet advertising. It would be interesting to know how the money Yahoo pays publishers compares with the money from Adsense.

[Tom]

And Google reported today that its profits have doubled (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/22/business/businessspecial3/22google.html) in the past year. In Dotcom days it was only stock prices which rose like this - never profits. Its an amazing difference.

[Tom]

The Sunday Times reports today that 9% of Britain's shopping is now conducted over the web. - and the figure can only grow. So both Yahoo and Google should do likewise.

We had a couple of months of grocery shopping on the web but gave up, I think, because the prices were high and the quality of all the fresh produce was lower than if it had been self-selected. But almost all new 'hardware' is purchased via the web. But there are FAR more terrible websites than good websites.